Minutes June 13, 1995068
CITY OF DENTON CITY COUNCIL MINUTES
June 13, 1995
The Council convened into the Closed Meeting on Tuesday, June 13,
1995 at 5:15 p.m. in the Civil Defense Room.
PRESENT: Mayor Castleberry; Mayor Pro Tem Brock; Council Members
Krueger, Biles, Young, Cott, and Miller.
Closed Meeting:
A.
Be
Legal Matters -- Under TEX. GOV'T CODE Sec. 551.071
Received a report and discussed status of
litigation in GTE v. City of Denton, City of Rusk~
et al v. GTE and Denton's complaint against GTE
pending before the PUC.
2. Considered action in Disheroon v. Scott~ et al.
Real Estate -- Under TEX. GOV'T CODE Sec. 551.072
Personnel/Board Appointments -- Under TEX. GOV'T CODE
Sec. 551.074
Council considered the following items in a Special Called Meeting
of the City of Denton City Council on Tuesday, June 13, 1995 at
6:00 p.m. in the Council Chambers of City Hall.
1. Council considered a resolution of appreciation for Mark Chew.
Council considered the following Resolution of Appreciation:
RA95-016
A RESOLUTION IN APPRECIATION FOR MARK CHEW, RETIRING CITY
COUNCIL MEMBER
Miller motioned, Brock seconded to approve the resolution of
appreciation.
On roll vote Cott, "aye", Brock "aye", Miller "aye", Castleberry
"aye", Biles "aye", Young "aye", Krueger "aye". Motion passed
unanimous ly.
The following items were considered in a Work Session of the City
of Denton City Council on Tuesday, June 13, 1995, at 6:00 p.m. in
the City Council Chambers of City Hall.
1. Council heard presentations from Blair, Goggan, Sampson &
Meeks; McCreary, Veselka, Bragg & Allen; and Sawko & Burroughs
regarding the collection of delinquent taxes and gave staff
direction.
City of Denton City Council Minutes
June 13, 1995
Page 2
Mayor Castleberry informed presenters that there would be a 15
minute time limit on presentations.
Jon Fortune, Chief Finance Officer, said the City's current
contract for the delinquent tax collection expired at the end of
June. As a matter of procedure, staff solicited request for
proposals from additional law firms. Six law firms responded and
that information was provided to Council at the June 6th meeting.
Fortune pointed out one correction to the June 6th report. He said
two Denton County clients were omitted from the law firm of Sawko
& Burroughs, the Town of Flower Mound and Hickory Creek.
Council Member Krueger asked if their totals had changed.
Fortune responded that the totals did not change, the two cities
were inadvertently omitted. He said Council directed Staff to
narrow the respondents to three would make 15 minute presentations.
He said Staff would anticipate further direction from Council
regarding the contract renewal or a new contract to be brought back
for Council's approval for tax collection services beginning July
1, 1995.
Blair, Goggan, Sampson & Meeks made a presentation to the Council.
Mike Greggory introduced their team: Peggy McCormick, Data Manager;
Debbie Patten, Manager of the Denton Office; Curtis Loveless, local
Denton Attorney; Beth Weller, Bankruptcy Attorney; Gary Bennett,
Lead Attorney for Denton; and Charlow Bradshaw, Lawyer in
Greggory's office. Greggory said his firm did the job as well as
it did because they had a better system, better equipment, better
people, people who worked harder and had personal contact with the
tax payer. The firm had always been a leader in collections,
affirmative action and in local involvement. He said the key
issue for the Council was who could collect the most tax dollars
most efficiently. Each year on July 1, the delinquent tax roll was
turned over to the attorney. Their numbers, prior performance, and
performance with the Denton Independent School District would show
they could do it better.
Peggy McCormick provided further explanation. She said they
believed collection performance was the single most important thing
to use when making the decision about which law firm should collect
the taxes. She said as the former tax assessor/collector for the
City of Grand Prairie and Haltom City, she was associated with the
process many times, as a client. She associated with Blair,
Goggan, Sampson & Meeks two years ago. They were the type of law
firm that exemplified the collection performance and level of
service to the client she expected when she was a client. She said
the Council's decision should be about revenue, which delinquent
law firm could collect the most revenue for the City of Denton.
McCormick said every taxing jurisdiction had certain revenue
City of Denton City Council Minutes
June 13, 1995
Page 3
expectations when choosing a law firm and Denton had those revenue
expectations in 1986 when choosing their law firm over the former
firm of Terry Lewis and Dan Coffey. She said they met those
expectations by increasing collection over $350,000 in the first
year, a 122% increase. She said they successfully represented the
City of Denton until 1993 and collected over $5.5 billion dollars
on the City's behalf. They worked hard to create a collection
program that would generate the most money for the City of Denton.
In 1993, the City chose to change to the McCreary firm. She said
there was a 16% decrease in collections from the last year Blair,
Goggan collected the taxes and almost $70,000 less was deposited to
the City's treasury as a result of the McCreary firms efforts. She
said when Denton Independent School District chose to change firms
they also had revenue expectations. They changed from the McCreary
firm to Blair, Goggan and they increased their collections over
$222,000 in the first year, an 18% increase. She said the DISD was
so careful to make the decision to change law firms based on
performance that they submitted their number to their own
independent outside auditor, Hankins, Powers & Deaton for
verification. She said the collections should be seen in the
context of the universe that it was to be collected. McCormick
said the City Tax Office did a fine job of collections and the
Council had seen the current collection percentages increase over
the last five years. She said collection had also increased for
her other clients due to the economy and more sophisticated
collection techniques. She said it was true that the McCreary firm
had less money to collect in the first year of their contract with
the City. They had 15% less money and collection dropped 16%.
McCormick said in DISD's first year, they also had less money to
collect in current year turnover but their decrease was 27%.
Despite the 27% decrease in current year turnover they increased
collections over $222,000 for the DISD. She felt that was an
important and valid comparison since the City of Denton and DISD
were similar taxing jurisdictions with overlapping properties. In
fact DISD taxes were harder to collect. Higher tax rates meant
larger tax burden and people tend to pay the tax bills they could
afford first. She felt Denton had suffered a collection shortfall
over the last two years. The City of Denton's effectiveness was
nearly 10% less than DISD. When the 10% difference was applied to
the current year turnover, it resulted in a collection shortfall of
$34,762. She felt the City of Denton had been under collected. If
the City of Denton had been collected as effectively as the DISD
was by Blair Goggan, the City would have recognized an additional
$34,762 in the first year of the contract. Through the most recent
nine months the shortfall was $27,400. She said Blair, Goggan,
Sampson & Meeks did a better job of collecting taxes than any other
law firm. They proved it in Denton twice. She said thoro
other qualities that made their law firm collection performance and
level of service to clients superior and unique to any of their
competitors.
City of Denton City'~uncil Minutes
June 13, 1995
Page 4
Gary Bennett addressed the Council and'told why they should select
Blair, Goggan, Sampson & Meeks over anyone else. He said they do
the litigation.~ They send out letters periodically to the tax
payers. He said what they did that other firms did not was
maintain personal contact with the tax payers.' They had them on
the 'phone and talked with them on a weekly basis, not as
harassment but to act as problem solvers to enable them to find out
ways to get their taxes paid. They thought it was important to
compare their performance at DISD to the City because of the
similar atmosphere, tax payer, property, and sets of problems.
Bennett said because they go the extra mile with the personal
contact they get more money collected quicker in a specified period
of time. Because of the personal contact they generated a lot of
money for the City as they worked through their programs. They
welcomed'the City as a client in the past and hoped tO have the
City as a client again. He invited the Council to independently
verify all the figures and performance levels presented if there
were questions. Bennett said they had a local presence in Denton.
The office was staffed by local people, used local vendors and
pumped a lot of money into the community on an annual basis. He
told the Council that no one understood and knew the tax payers
better than Debbie, their Denton Office Manager. They. felt they
had a superior track record and could back up what they said. He
said they would love to represent the City again. He gave his
personal commitment that ~f the City decided to.go back with Blair,
Goggan they would not experience shortfalls and there would be more
money to work with then over the past 22 months.
Curtis Loveless concluded the presentation. He emphasized that he
and Mike Greggory had both been residents of Denton County and the
City of Denton for over 45 years. He said they were committed to
being a local presence. He said they felt they had the local ties,
experience, and the background to do the best job and the figures
showed that.
Council Member Young said he noticed that there were minorities
that worked with the firm and asked Loveless why there were no
minorities from their firm represented.
Loveless said Ms. Sampson was on vacation and could not attend.
He allowed one of the representatives from the Dallas office
explain further.
The'representative explained that Ms. Sampson was a main partner in
the firm and a shareholder. The other minority members were in the
Dallas Office and acted as support to the local office to provide
business to local minority vendors. He said Ms. Sampson was of the
opinion that if further action was taken_ she would be back to
attend the next Council meeting.
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City of Denton City Council Minutes
June 13, 1995
Page 5
Young asked how many people on the staff were here in Denton.
The representative responded that there were two people that man
the Denton Office. He was the Attorney and was in the local office
once every week, once every two weeks or as often as necessary. He
said the local counsel was there on a full-time basis to help with
problems.
Council Member Miller asked that the representative explain the
process of making the personal contact.
Bennett said they employed professionally trained collectors. It
was not like a collection agency and not harassment calls. They
had records of the number of letters or paper work sent to
taxpayers. They contacted them on the basis that they had sent
several letters and other pieces of information and have had no
contact and were concerned if they had they correct address or if
they received the letters. Bennett said it was sometimes the case
they had not. Bennett explained that they engaged the taxpayer in
conversation and explained the payment options available to them.
Usually they were not aware of the options and they would be set up
on some payment plan to help get taxes brought current. He was
aware of very few instances where the process had been a problem.
Bennett said they began by working down the list of all
delinquencies.
Miller asked how often was the personal contact each week.
Bennett said every week they worked the rolls. He said it might be
for Denton they had a clerk that may work the rolls one day per
week or two days per week. It varied but every week the roll was
worked by someone. He said he was available as the attorney to
answer any legal questions. He would contact persons by phone or
arrange for a personal appointments with the taxpayer.
Miller asked if 55% of their Dallas work force was minority, with
33% percent Afro-American, 10% Hispanic and 12.5% other, and 73%
female. He asked that Bennett describe the types of jobs the
minorities were in.
Bennett said they go all the way from partners to clerks. He said
Curtis Mayfield, Senior Attorney, and head of the Beaumont Office
was an African-American. They had African-American paralegals,
collectors that were African-American as well as Hispanics. They
also had managers of various departments that were either African-
Americans or Hispanic. Bennet said their firm had always been the
leader in the industry in the Stat~ in m£nority involvement and in
providing jobs to outside vendors which were minority owned. They
were pleased with that and felt their record spoke for itself in
that regard.
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City of Denton City Council Minutes
June 13, 1995
Page 6
Gil Bragg of McCreary, Veselka, Bragg & Allen addressed the
Council. He said their main office was located in Austin but they
had a branch office in Denton. Bragg said the local office was
staffed with 5 persons. He introduced the four staff members
attending the meeting: Kim Sanders, Shyra Pedice, Karen McGee, and
LeAnn Bassett. Donna Elkins was the fifth staff person but was
unable to attend the meeting. Bragg said he was there at least
one, sometimes two to three days each week and considered himself
a Denton resident although his legal residence was in Austin. He
said Byron Berry and Richard Hayes would speak regarding their part
of the partnership. He said the McCreary firm was established in
1960 by Jack McCreary. They had been in continuous operation with
the change in name because of different persons elevated to the
level of partner. Their first client in Denton County was Argyle
ISD which they represented continuously since 1979. They were
hired by the Commissioner's Court of Denton County in 1985 and had
represented the County since 1985. They were hired by the City of
Denton in 1993. A complete listing of their Denton County clients
was listed in the proposal. Bragg said they enjoyed their
relationship over the last two years with the City Staff. He
worked closely with Mr. Schneider in the Tax Office and also Mr.
Jefferson and Mr. Fortune. He said he was the person that met with
them on almost a weekly basis monitoring the progress. He stressed
that the numbers in their presentation was prepared by the City
Staff. He said Hayes, Coffee & Berry were not local counsel but a
true, legitimate partnership formed two years ago for the purposes
of representing the City of Denton and Denton County. Bragg said
it had worked excellently. Bragg referred to his charts and
focused on the numbers from the June 6 meeting which charted the
current year turnover each year of delinquent taxes and where that
had gone. He said it was excellent news for the Council but bad
news for a delinquent tax attorney. With the tax year of 1989 -
1993 each year the turnover had steadily gone down. He said the
1994 turnover would be considerably less than $200,000. He said it
put a delinquent tax collection firm in a difficult position in
trying to stand up and boast about increasing collections year
after year when the pie was getting smaller. Bragg said the way
you judge performance was by asking what the firm was doing in the
first year with what was turned over to them to collect. Bragg
said the Council had established traditionally a very aggressive
standard of 60% in the first year. The May report showed that in
1989, the percentage started out at over 60% but as the turn over
went down the performance went down. He said those numbers were
taken straight off the report the Council received the previous
weeks report. Beginning with the two years they had been the
delinquent tax attorney Council could see in 1992 by the end of May
they were at 58.24% but the year prior to that the Heard firm wa~
as 53.41%. He said currently they had exceeded their goal even
though they had until the end of June to reach 60%. At the end of
May they had received a 61.54%. He said he checked with the Tax
City of Denton City Council Minutes
June 13, 1995
Page 7
Office and they were up to 61.94% as of the previous Friday. Bragg
said he took the worst month they ever had in collections and if
they did that well in June they would reach almost 62.5%. Taking
half of what they did in June of the previous year, $5,000, they
would reach over 63%. He told the Council that they were
aggressively going after and trying to get the dollars into the
City coffers as soon as possible. He thought Council was also
entitled to know where the taxes were that were delinquent at the
time they were hired. As of May 30, 52.5% had been collected. Of
the remainder, 21% was in some form of litigation; less than 1% had
some sort of pay out arrangement or the people were over 65; 11.5%
was in a pending bankruptcy; and 14% they were still working on.
He said that 14% was the most difficult since it was the oldest
years. They were still making efforts to collect that but in all
honesty they were probably vacant lots that would have to be sold
and they were aggressively working in that regard.
Mr. Berry of the McCreary firm addressed the Council. He said what
differentiated their firm was the fit they had between local
attorney's working with the state wide collection firm. He felt
Council should give them a chance because of the work that had been
done in the past and the program they had together. He said they
did what they told the Council they would do 2 years ago. Looking
at apples to apples they could see that the collection numbers had
gone up from the prior firm. He said he talked with the people at
the County and asked them who they preferred to work with and they
had an excellent working relationship with the partnership they
were presenting to Council. Berry said the fit was going to
continue and they hoped to continue to work with the City both in
delinquent tax collection and the work they had done outside the
partnership individually and as two firms working for the City of
Denton.
Richard Hayes stressed that they did in fact have a real
partnership that worked well for the City the last couple of years.
He said they did title research, analysis of change of title, court
appearances, and appeared in bankruptcy court. He also talked
about the previous history of declining effectiveness which was the
reason Council went out for RFP the last time. Now there was a
history of improving collections. In regards to the previous firms
presentation about a $34,000 shortfall, Hayes said Council could
look at their own numbers and there was no relevance they could
find. In regards, to the School District numbers they collected
there was no analysis to tie to that number. Hayes said the bottom
line was that when Council looked at audited internal data there
was an improvement. He introduced the staff they brought with
them. He said they would appreciate Council's support and vote on
the issue. They were committed to continue doing an excellent job.
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City of Denton City Council Minutes
June 13, 1995
Page 8
Miller asked what their method of contact was with the citizen in
regards to tax collection.
The speaker said two times a year they made a concerted effort to
contact citizens that owed delinquent taxes to follow up a mailing.
He explained that the conversation was to say they just sent a
mailing and wanted to be sure they received it and that the
information on the tax roll accurate. He said the conversation
inevitably turned to "how can I pay this, is there someone I can
talk to, etc.." In addition to the telephone, the contact was
constant. There were citizens in the office everyday. He said
they rent a large space across the street in the Denton County Tax
Office building. They also represented the County so if they were
there to pay County taxes they probably owed City taxes as well.
He said all pay out arrangements with the City were monitored by
them so the City Staff was not encumbered by having to continually
know who was current on the pay out arrangements and who was not.
Miller asked to what extent the people in the Hayes, Coffee and
Berry office got involved in the process.
The speaker said they had a real estate paralegal that has done
title work on a regular basis. There had been times when Mr. Bragg
had a particular thorny thing and since he was board certified in
commercial and residential real estate he had done some of the
complicated title analysis. Virtually everyone had gone to court
for the trial/determination on the matter. There were a number of
things they did. He had met with City staff before to handle
matters and there had been lots of involvement.
Miller said looking at the statistics relative to equal employment
opportunity, the Afro-American population was 4.5% and Hispanic
6.8% for a total of 11.4%.
The speaker said the numbers in the report were accurate. Of the
Denton Office Staff 20% were African-American.
Mr. Bragg from the firm also addressed the question. He said
there was a lot of talk about all the equal opportunity but they
realized that there were no attorney's in Denton County that fit
what they needed. He said they could not help that but what they
could do was to hire people. He said they hired Loranna Morales as
a junior in high school who worked her way through TWU. They tried
to get her to go to law school but she refused. After working with
them, she was going to be a teacher. He said they were really
proud of that.
Miller asked if the 78 people they listed were Denton people.
City of Denton City Council Minutes
June 13, 1995
Page 9
Bragg said there was a line indicating the Denton Office. The
remainder of the chart was everyone in the firm that was not in
Denton. He said to the Council that 2 years ago they hired two
Hispanic gentleman from the UT Law School as Law Clerks. Their
intention at that time was to have both gentlemen work for them and
possibly one would consent to come to work for them. They were so
pleased with their performance offers were extended to them and as
of August 1, the would have 2 Hispanic attorneys in the firm. At
that time there would be 20% minority.
Krueger asked Bragg how he would address the question that they
were not a local firm.
Bragg commented that it was all about how you defined local. He
said he sleeps in Austin, Texas but spends a lot of time and money
in Denton. He said he was obligated in the form of office rent and
salaries to spend $159,000 every year in the City. He said he
thought that made him local. He bought the suit he was wearing at
JT's along with his shirt and his 1994 Yukon from James Wood. He
said he was sorry that had not felt compelled to Denton because
they were living in Austin first but he said he loved Denton an
felt local.
Krueger said he received a letter from a citizen regarding a
complaint with the firm as far as getting a release after the
delinquent taxes were paid because Bragg was unavailable to sign
the release. He asked if that was out of the ordinary or was that
something experienced because he was in Austin. The citizen said
Bragg was the only one that could sign the release. Krueger asked
if that was true and if so what could be done to alleviate that in
the future.
Bragg said he was the one that signed the releases. If they
dismiss a pending lawsuit and they had somehow made an error, that
lawsuit could be refiled. If they released a judgement and it got
recorded and they refiled the lawsuit because it was released in
error they would have a serious problem. Because of that they had
very strenuous safeguards regarding actual copies of receipts and
verification that the taxes and court costs were actually paid. He
said for a lot of people with delinquent taxes it was alright to
let them go delinquent, or to let the lawyers take a judgement but
when they go pay the taxes they want the release the instant they
write the check. He thought that would be an unreasonable position
for any lawyer whether in Denton or not. The got the gentleman his
release in a timely manner. He said if the Council wanted them to
establish a procedure where he was not the only one to sign the
release they would be glad to make that change. He said it was to
protect their clients from an inadvertent release being signed.
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City of Denton City Council Minutes
June 13, 1995
Page 10
Hayes said the gentleman paid by check on a Thursday. Part of the
delay was to allow the check time to clear and Gil Bragg was also
not in the office. Hayes said the release was signed on the
following Monday or Tuesday.
Cott asked how many releases they signed each week, month, or year.
Bragg said it was not an inordinate number.
Cott asked if one was a significant number.
Bragg said they do a lot more dismissals.
Mayor Castleberry asked if it took longer to supply the release
than it took the client to pay the taxes.
Bragg said no. He said the gentleman's attitude and persistence
actually impeded the process.
Mark Burroughs addressed the Council on behalf of Sawko &
Burroughs. He had lived in Denton for a number of years but his
office location was in Ft. Worth. He said Lewisville ISD was the
first taxing unit he represented in Denton County and he did so for
a number of years until they consolidated their collection services
with the attorney for non tax purposes. He thought there were
several reasons why they should be the City's next delinquent tax
attorney. He said they were the best bidder of the three finalists
for several reasons. First, he said he was here. He was the
attorney that would be assigned the tax collections work for the
City. The other two firms were not local firms even though they
had affiliated with local counsel. If the local counsel was
competent to perform the tax collections work they would be doing
it themselves and not going out of County and sending a great
majority of the attorney's fees out of County. Burroughs said he
was with the firm of Hayes, Coffey & Berry the previous year and
was generally responsible for tax work and administering their
contract and their work with Gil Bragg of McCreary, Veselka. He
said he broke back out with his partner Greg Sawko and decided to
enter back into his old realm of business, collecting delinquent.
He said he had been doing it for 13 years and was quite
experienced, starting out in the City of Houston representing a
number of taxing units in the surrounding area. He had represented
taxing units not only in Denton County but Cooke County, Collin
County, Smith County, and various other places. Burroughs said he
focused on delinquent tax collections and for that reason they
developed their own tax collections program. He was personally
involved on a daily basis with the tax collections work. Their
general program was to do the mass mailings like the other firms
and they also file hundreds and hundreds of law suits for the units
they represent. Before they take any significant step in the
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City of Denton City Council Minutes
June 13, 1995
Page 11
collections process they communicate with each tax payer. He said
he spends the majority of his time each day on tax business and had
a high degree of expertise in the tax collection field. He said he
was the only delinquent tax collection specialist competent and
capable of performing the work based in Denton. He said the
current staff level was six. In the past he had a little greater
staff and less staff. In Ft. Worth he consistently had 25%
minority hiring. Currently they had one person of American Indian
decent. He also said their work was restricted to Denton and Cook
Counties and they were much more efficient for that reason. The
had a greater attorney and staff ratio to taxing unit than any of
the other firms by far. He spends his time in Denton and Cook
County. He said his charts showed that they had superior rates of
collection which had to do with the personal hands-on approach they
took in the collections process. He presented information
regarding the total adjusted levy for the last fiscal year for the
City of Denton and six of the taxing unit clients he represented
and compared that with the total collections of current and
delinquent. He said by using that method you account for a lower
turnover of delinquency. For the City of Denton, the last fiscal
year ended, 99.9% total rate of collection was achieved. His
representative taxing units, Lake Dallas, Town of Flower Mound,
Little Elm, City of Gainsville, North Central Texas College
District, and Gainsvllle Hospital all had superior rates of
collections to the City. He was trying to indicate that his
approach to the tax business works and gets superior results.
Being based locally would give the city a double advantage over the
competing law firms. If someone had a question they could call
him. If there was a hang up in the system he was there every day
to adjust to them. He said his approach had been effective in the
results. He presented a second chart showing what was happening
with the City of Gainsville. In 1989-90 and 1993-94 he represented
the City of Gainsville. The interceding years they were
represented by Curt, Goggan & Blair, now Blair, Goggan, represented
the city. He said they turned the program around. Collection
severely declined during the years with Curt Goggan because they
did not have a local attorney who was active in the collection
process. He said one of the reasons he departed from Hayes, Coffey
& Berry was the level of activity of the local counsel. He wanted
to be more personally active in the collections process. He said
the range of services of what they did with collections encompassed
mass mailings, and everything the other firms did. They also
followed through. He said in certain circumstances you have to go
to foreclosure, that was the hammer and that was what made people
pay. If you just threaten all the time there was a tendency for
people to say you do not follow through. Burroughs presented the
total history of fore¢losure~ for all taxing units in Denton
County. Of those taxing units 143 foreclosures took place during
1987 - 1995 of which 90 of those were his taxing units. He
represented a number of the smaller taxing units and Lewisville ISD
City of Denton City Council Minutes
June 13, 1995
Page 12
where there were several foreclosures. He wanted to make sure the
job was done right, consistently. He felt they were the best firm
because they paid attention on a monthly basis to what was going on
with the revenue situation so if the City was falling behind, he
would be there to address it and jump on it. He said if the
Council, City Manager or staff had a suggestion as to how to
approach it he was there on a daily basis to get that from them.
Since the fees were not being divided in his firm to out of County
firms he was the only local law firm that kept all of the attorneys
fees in Denton, did all the work in Denton which meant more jobs in
Denton. He said because they live and work in Denton everyday, the
City of Denton was a very important aspect of their work lives and
they spent all of their fund in Denton. Burroughs said there was
a magnifying effect of the dollar utilization by spending the money
in Denton. Approximately $56,000 in attorney fees of tax payers
money was being paid to the delinquent tax attorney, the majority
of which went out of County. He strongly requested that the
Council consider them as the next delinquent tax attorney.
Council Member Krueger said it had been brought to his attention
that their modus of operandi was to file suits rather than seek a
settlement. He asked what their standard operating procedure when
they received a tax collection.
Burroughs responded that they always worked with the tax payers and
let them know before they took any step that they needed to
communicate with them. He said one of the biggest reasons a person
went delinquent was the lack of communication. They enter into
payment agreements, and on many occasions work with tax payers to
try to get a title company to pay up on delinquent taxes that were
collected at closing but were not disbursed out. He said it was
not in their best interest to file a lawsuit and they did
everything they could not to get to that step. He said the 143
foreclosures of the 8 year period was not a tremendous number but
it was an effective number when looking at his jurisdictions. It
showed that eventually if you did not respond or get involved in
trying to correct your own problem they would go to lawsuit if
necessary.
Mayor Castleberry asked if there were questions for any of the
three firms.
Council Member Brock asked if the firms would like a minute or two
for a rebuttle after having heard each others arguments.
Mayor Pro Tem Biles agreed that a couple minutes to respond to the
other presentations would be appropriate.
McCormick from Blair, Goggan, Sampson & Meeks said they were proud
of their performance and made every effort to verify their numbers
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June 13, 1995
Page 13
and have the source data for them. The City of Denton had always
made it a practice to look at the firms performance based on the
60% collection of the current year taxes. The numbers provided by
the McCreary firm showed an 11 month comparison. She said the
Council should be aware that it was not a complete representation
of any of the law firms performance. She said if the Council were
to look at the City of Denton and Denton ISD that year and last
year the City of Denton was at 61% and Denton School District was
at 63.5% and through the end of April the City of Denton was at
59.08% the School District was at 62.76%. She said they thought
that was important.
Burroughs from Sawko & Burroughs referenced the charts and said he
realized it was hard for the Council to try to weigh the
statistics. He said on the chart where it was the 99% and 101%, 1%
to the City was $140,000 in collections.
Council Member Cott commented that it did not matter where you stop
as long as you stop consistently the same place year after year
after there was a relative basis.
McCormick from Blair, Goggan, Sampson & Meeks responded that if you
were judging a law firm's performance on a 12 month basis it would
be reasonable to expect that you had a difference in what months
you collected the taxes. There was never one year when Blair,
Goggan did not meet the Council's goal. She said in 1991 they
collected over 9% in the last month alone. Depending on when that
snap shot was taken you would see a different picture.
Cott asked if they were comparing numbers the same day each year
and the same number of days, should not the numbers be relative.
McCormick from Blair, Goggan said if you were judging the law firms
performance based on a 60% collection of current year turnover then
what the Council saw was not a full year's comparison but 11
months. They could collect the entire 60% in the last month. She
said what Council saw as a snap shot was not a full year's
collection performance.
Council Member Brock motioned to direct staff to prepare a contract
for collection of delinquent taxes with the firm of Blair, Goggan,
Sampson & Meeks. She said the firm they had the last two years has
done a good job but believes Blair, Goggan could do better. She
also said she appreciated their treatment of the citizens with
difficulties and illnesses and so forth. Their record of minority
hiring' and patronizing minority vendors was outstanding and
unequaled by any firm of their sort in the state. She said they
had an excellent state wide record, the most sophisticated
approaches as well as a more personal human approach.
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City of Denton City Council' Mih~~s~' ~'
June 13, 1995
Page 14
Council Member Miller seconded the motion.
Council Member Krueger asked each firm who prepared their brochure.
Ail three firms responded that their brochures were produced in
house.
Mayor Pro Tem Biles said he was personally acquainted with all
three of the local counsel of all three firms and considered all of
the attorneys to be personal friends.
On roll vote Cott, "nay", Brock "aye", Miller "aye", Castleberry
"nay", Biles "aye", Young "nay", Krueger "aye". Motion passed with
a 4-3 vote.
2. Council received a report and gave staff direction regarding
renewing hotel occupancy tax recipient contracts.
Jon Fortune, Chief Finance Officer reminded the Council that staff
made a presentation made at the May 23 meeting regarding the
process to the current contract with hotel occupancy recipients.
At that time Council asked that staff come back for further
discussion. Fortune referenced the back up items presented to
Council. First, he referenced the memorandum dated February 15
which was sent to the hotel occupancy subcommittee appointed last
year to study in depth the distribution and allocation of the hotel
occupancy tax. That committee consisted of Mayor Castleberry,
Council Member Brock, and Council Member Perry. The memorandum
described the five year history of the allocation of the revenue
source. He said prior to 1991-92 there was approximately $.01
distributed to the Greater Denton Arts Council building fund. It
was determined that particular allocation was an inappropriate use
of the funds. A decision was made that the City would continue
paying the Greater Denton Arts Council building fund out of the
General Fund. The City would then use the hotel occupancy funds
previously given to the Arts Council for eligible activities that
would promote tourism in the City. The second backup item he
referenced was the subcommittee's recommendation to the Council,
dated February 22. The third memo reconciled the subcommittee's
recommendation and the motion made the evening of that
recommendation. He said that was how Staff ended up with the
contracts they had. The final attachment was a memorandum from the
external auditor in which he addressed the issue of budgeting for
hotel occupancy tax funds. The current contract expired in
September 1995. Fortune said staff's primary reason for coming
back to Council was to get further direction regarding renewing the
contracts for October 1, 1995. Fortune said he needed three Dieces
of information from the Council prior to coming back with the
actual contracts. He reminded Council that each recipient
recommended would have to make budget presentation in late July
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City of Denton City Council Minutes
June 13, 1995
Page 15
early August. Fortune asked Council for direction on which
organizations should be funded next year. He said those currently
funded include the Chamber of Commerce, the Greater Denton Arts
Council, North Texas State Fair Association, and Denton County
Historic Foundation. Several other organizations made a request
for funds in the past year but were not recommended by the hotel
occupancy subcommittee. Fortune also asked what type of funding
scenario Council would like to pursue. He referenced a graph from
the back up material and said the graph looked at the current
budget and the allocation of the total $504,000 that each recipient
received. Fortune said it was anticipated that $546,000 would be
received in 1995 from hotel occupancy funds. That estimate was
derived from taking 5% growth over the prior year actual receipts.
He said if Council were to keep the current year allocation
percentage based upon next year's projection, there would be actual
increases for each of the recipients. Fortune also asked for
direction on the length of the contract term. Previous contracts
were for terms of 4 years. He reminded Council there was also a 6
month contract that expired September 30.
Council Member Krueger asked that Fortune review his first question
in detail.
Fortune commented that there were 5 contracts with organizations to
receive hotel occupancy funding which would expire September 30.
He said staff was looking for direction from Council as to whether
they would like to continue a contract with that group of five
recipients, add to those recipients, or have some other proposal
for funding.
Council Member Krueger presented a proposal he felt would allow for
expansion of the Lalor funds to be spent and spread among more
people and still maintain current budget for the 5 recipients and
perhaps allow for some increase and expansion of the recipients in
funds. He said the back up material showed in 1990 and 1991 how
the 7% hotel occupancy was distributed. He said 3% went to the
Convention and Visitors Bureau, 1% to GDAC Operations, 1% to GDAC
building fund, .88% to Denton County Historical Museum .12% to
Denton County Historic Foundation and 1% to North Texas State
Fairgrounds. Subsequently, that was changed and based upon a
different allocation, those allocations being the Chamber of
Commerce which dropped 15% from 3.0% to 2.85%, GDAC lost 1% because
of the building fund, Denton County Historical Museum went from
.88% to .84%, Denton County Historical Foundation went from .12% to
.11% and the North Texas State Fair Association was at 1.0% and
dropped to .95%. He said he had a serious problem with placing a
cap on any of the allocations. His philosophy was that none of the
groups should be penalized for doing their job and getting the
money out and promoting the City of Denton but he also felt it
needed to be expanded. He said if Council looked at staff's
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City of Denton City Council Minutes
June 13, 1995
Page 16
recommendation for fiscal budget 1995-96 there was a 5% projected
increased in taxes. Krueger presented a formula designed to expand
the program. He said for instance, the Chamber of Commerce was
expected to receive $17,000 more in 1995-96. You could take their
current tax rate allocation of 2.85% and reduce it to a 2.7% -
2.75% and they would still maintain as much as they made in 1994-95
and $300 - $400 more. He said the GDAC allocation could also be
reduced from 1.0% to .95% or .98% and they would still receive more
money than the previous year. He said he did not touch the Denton
County Historical Foundation because they had such a small amount
to begin with or any of the other eligible city expenses. He took
a certain percentage off the top three allocations which Would
increase the participation of another entity to promote the City of
Denton and also to promote tourism and fill the hotels which would
increase the number percentage by which the budget was determined
without decreasing the amount of current revenue of any entity they
had so far. That was an approach that did not place a burden or a
cap on any one of the original recipients. Secondly, it provided
and incentive for them to go out and market and fill the hotels.
Thirdly, it provided an incentive and market for other entities
like the Main Street Program, for example, to get actively involved
and try to get some of the funds. Krueger said it was a win/win
situation for the Council and all of the other entities involved.
He said it also allowed for the reserves to grow because the more
people in it and participating the more tourism and filled hotels,
the eligible expense from the city goes up. Krueger asked that the
Council consider his proposal.
Council Member Cott felt Krueger was headed in basically the right
direction. Cott explained that the hotels and motels all over the
State of Texas which paid a bed tax. That bed tax was allowed to
be used by the local jurisdiction for anything that promoted
tourism. He said the problem he saw was that all over the State
the way the number was chosen was so capricious that the hotels and
motels should organize and say give back the money and they would
do the job themselves. He said some people did that with the
electricity companies. He suggested that Council set up a formula
to stick by and then do what Council Member Krueger suggested.
Krueger said the proposal was basically a declining formula. By
dropping each entity, over the years their whole dollars would
continue to increase and the economy would grow allowing in another
two years to drop another percentage to add other entities.
Council Member Brock responded to Council Member Cott's comments
that the hotels and motels were paying the tax. She said they did
not pay the tax, the people who stayed in the hotels and motels
paid the tax and it went to the State and then the State allocated
a certain percentage to localities. She asked the Attorney to
clarify the ordinance regarding the expenditure of the taxes.
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City of Denton City Council Minutes
June 13, 1995
Page 17
Herb Prouty, City Attorney, asked Mike Bucek, Senior Assistant City
Attorney, to respond and discuss that provision of the ordinance.
Bucek said it allowed 1% for the arts and there was no requirement
about did that bring in tourism. The presumption was that arts
would do that and there was no criteria that required it.
Mayor Pro Tem Biles said as a pro bono action he represented all of
the contractual recipients with the exception of the North Texas
State Fair at the inception of the very first contracts negotiated
with the then City Attorney Debra Drayovitch. He said the tax was
by design an incentive. The harder the Convention and Visitor's
Bureau worked to bring outside folks in to Denton, the more hotel
motel occupancy tax would be paid. As a result, the revenue to the
Convention's and Visitors Bureau went up. He said it was the
american way, the harder you work the more successful you were the
more fruits of your labor you should be able to enjoy. He said
that applied to all of the recipients. Biles said he was involved
in downtown Denton issues and a strong supporter of the Downtown
area since the day he returned to the City of Denton. For every
dollar that the City of Denton put in to Downtown, there was a
return on that investment of 23 to 1. He said there was no other
entity in the City of Denton that had that kind of return on
investment. He said although he participated with each and every
one of the organizations and had close relationships with a number
of them, he said the Denton Central Business District Association-
the Main Street program far out shadowed and out performed the
other organizations in terms of raw dollars brought in to town. As
for the issue of what entity should be funded, an entity should be
added to the list because of its proven performance was the Denton
Central Business District Association-the private sector partner
with the municipally funded Main Street program.
Mayor Castleberry restated Fortune's questions. The first question
was which agencies. He suggested that Council open it to everyone
that would like to make a presentation.
Krueger said that was fine with him. He thought the adoption of
the tax rate allocation would formulate much more if they adopted
his proposal. To add more people on would necessitate some type of
an adoption of what he was laying out. He said he did not want to
place a burden on the people they already had because he believed
they were doing an excellent job promoting Denton and filling
hotels. He thought at the bare minimum they should receive the
same amount they had last year. He felt Council should be in
accord and agree to that before they started adding people.
Council Member Brock wanted to be sure she was clear on Krueger's
proposal. She asked if he was saying they should reduce the
present percentages each agency received slightly so that if the
City of Denton City Counci!~<M~u~9S~<.!~ ~~
June 13, 1995
Page 18
projected 5% increase was met, they would actually get more even
though their percentage of the total was less.
Council Member Miller thought it made sense to continue funding the
one they had and maybe in the next year or so look at other
agencies. He agreed about the downtown association but was not
sure they had enough time to make the right decision. He suggested
leaving the rate they paid the same for those organizations, look
at the budget staff presented which would give each organization an
increase and look at that as the new cap. If the 5% was exceeded
that amount would accrue to the reserve. That cap would remain for
a two year period so if there was another 5% increase next year,
there would be another $42,000. That way Council could see what
kind of experience they were having under that kind of scenario.
That would be in keeping with what they said to the agencies as to
why the item was being deferred at that time. Miller also
responded to Council Member Krueger's comment about keeping the
allocation for Denton County Historical Foundation the same. He
said the committee recommended that it be cut in half because there
was a feeling that over a two year period that perhaps it would be
eliminated. He asked that the Council consider that approach.
Krueger said he did not believe that any kind of cap to any of the
organizations was any kind of economic incentive. He said that the
sky was the limit. If they filled up every hotel in Denton at 100%
occupancy they should receive well over $300,000. He said that was
incentive. If they decided to put any kind of cap on those
organizations they would be cutting their own throats in the long
run. He said he was not privy to the committee information about
the Historical Foundation. He said you could pick any 10 entities
and still felt the numbers ought to be the same. They should
reflect a reduction and an expansion to allow more entities to come
and promote the City of Denton. If they waited two more years they
waited two years too late. Krueger said if they expanded and
allowed a new entity to come in and in 2 years allow another entity
to come in and promote the City of Denton until they run out of
entities, they would be far better off because they still had no
ceiling.
Council Member Cott refereed to the source of the money which was
the traveler in the hotel and the fact that most hotels like the
Raddison would rather have the money for themselves to work with.
He said as the Council added new agencies that could use the
money, he believed they needed financial standards because he did
not feel the hotel and motels wanted to be venture capitalists.
They did not want to put a new type of organization in to business
over a 5 to ? to 9 year period. They wanted to get instant people
into their hotel. He believed that it was Council's job to set a
standard by which organizations could get in and use the money.
City of Denton City Council Minutes
June 13, 1995
Page 19
Biles said his example of the Main Street program was among those
leading the community in setting the standard with the
organizations they had and the number of proven participants in
their activities. He said the Visioning process was nearing
conclusion and the Fantus report was receiving action by the
Council. He said the City was growing and if they waited for two
more years to review who the recipients were they would have by
passed many golden opportunities. Biles said it was time for them
to ensure they had full participation and took full advantage of
the opportunities. Biles respectfully submitted that they add to
Staff's list the Denton Central Business District Association. He
said if it was the pleasure of the Council that they reopen to
those entities that met the standards, as Cott suggested, and
statutory criteria by bringing folks in from outside the City of
Denton to fill hotel beds and possibly build more hotel beds, that
was what they needed to do. He disagreed with Miller that they
should stick with the five entities and wait another 2 years. He
urged his position that Denton was a growing City and needed to
understand that the numbers presented by Fortune showed an increase
that if they kept the percentage the same the Convention and
Visitors Bureau would have an additional $17,077. If they could
take that incremental increase, give it to the Main Street program
that brings thousands of people into Denton they then would have
more money to market their events more intensely to bring even more
money in so everyone would receive an increase.
Mayor Castleberry asked Biles if he was saying that it should be
opened that any group that would like to be considered for Lalor
funds to be able to come before the Council and make a
presentation.
Biles responded yes, if they had a demonstrable compliance with the
statutory criteria and they were bringing people from outside the
City of Denton. He said because they had filled the percentage on
arts they would be talking about pure tourism. He did not feel
that would present much of a delay since they could fast track the
process.
Mayor Castleberry asked if he was saying that the current
recipients would make a presentation plus any other entity that
wanted to come and make a Dresentation.
Biles said he agreed with Miller that the five entities they had
before needed to continue receiving funding. He understood the
justification for the reduction on the Denton County Historical
Foundation and did not have a problem with that. He said he was
talking about adding other entities.
Council Member Brock suggested that the three new Council receive
the application materials from the current recipients and those
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City of Denton City Counci! Minu~es: ~
June 13, 1995
Page 20
applying to be added to the list so they would not necessarily have
to open up and have presentations.
Mayor Castleberry thought if the process was opened to one it
should be opened to anybody.
Biles said if the Council was provided an opportunity to review and
reconsider those earlier applicants in addition to the five that
would probably expedite the process. He said that was not making
it wide open but just to those who presented to the subcommittee.
City Manager Harrell commented on Council Member Krueger's
suggestion as a point of information that they need to be working
towards. He said a couple of years ago the state law was changed
so that the City Council had to formally approve the budget for
each of the organizations they funded. He said it would seem
prudent if Council followed his proposal they would formulate a
contract with the Chamber of Commerce Convention and Visitors
Bureau, for example, that said they would get 40% or whatever the
percentage was, of the hotel motel tax or "X" amount whichever was
less. He said at some point they would have to give the agency a
dollar budget for the Council to approve. He suggested that
Council could get to where he wanted to go but they would have to
plug in a dollar number that would become the budget for that
organization.
Council Member Krueger said found it strange that the law was
interpreted a different way from one year to the next. He said if
that was the way the law was written he was not sure that was what
it was written for. He felt strongly against putting a cap on
anything and did not feel they were being realistic if they tried
to put a 10%, 15% or 20 % over what they really thought would
happen. He asked if they collected more sales tax than allotted
did the law require them to give back.
Harrell responded no but they were not permitted to spend it. He
said if the money was not budgeted and allocated it would be rolled
over and becomes part of the fund balance for the next year.
Krueger said the next year they could budget it to spend.
Harrell said he was not trying to take issue with where he wanted
to go but was trying to help Council get there.
Krueger asked if they had an Attorney General's opinion on the law.
Mayor Pro Tem Biles said the objective the statute was written upon
was that those recipients of the money could either die by the
sword or be victorious with the sword. If they were to blow it
when they used the dollars, their revenue would go down and they
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City of Denton City Council Minutes
June 13, 1995
Page 21
would have fewer dollars to spend on marketing to bring folks in
from out of town. If they were successful and numbers were going
up, they would have more dollars and benefit from more and more
dollars. If Council adopted a budget that had a fixed dollar
amount on it and the organizations could not exceed that, they
would have no incentive to work harder. Biles said he knew prior
Councils had a concern with reserves and how money had been spent.
He said those were statutory concerns. What they were talking
about was were they operating on the incentive that the statute had
built. If they worked harder and were more successful, they should
reap the benefits and be able to use the extra money. If the City
Attorney advised Council they had to have a fixed dollar and they
could not exceed that dollar amount in the budget year, it would
make him mad if any excess revenue generated as the result of the
hard work of the contractual recipients was turned over to the City
to spend on whatever. Instead it would be used for what the
statute said it ought to be used for, to bring tourist dollars into
the City. He said he did not trust government with his tax dollars
and if he was going to spend a night in a hotel bed he wanted the
hotel tax to be used for that purpose.
Cott said the supplier of the money said be careful with my money
no matter what you spend it on. Be sure it was used to bring
people into the City but if not do not spend it.
Harrell said everyone was struggling to be legal and yet get where
Biles articulated. He said if the Council proceeded by saying they
want "X" percentage and that percentage should go all of the
agencies and the City collects more than that then the agencies
should get more than the amount estimated from the fixed
percentage. He thought it was perfectly legal as long as they
recognized they could carry that over to the next year. In other
words, Council adopted a budget based on a 5% increase noting that
the Chamber would get 40% of the amount. If the estimate was low
and, the amount grew by 8% instead of 5%, then the following year
when Council starts the budgeting process for the Chamber, they
would get credit for the extra 3% collected the last year and then
allocate 40% of the estimate for the following year. As long as
Council was comfortable that was doable.
Krueger said that was not a cap. He said budgetary wise they may
need to put a blanket coverage on it but as long as that was known
by all the entities involved that was acceptable.
Biles said if instead they made 8% instead of 5% the extra 3%
profit would be allocated the following year according to the
contra~t that was in place during the year the money was earned so
the entities would have the incentive to work harder the next year.
Harrell felt the contracts could be set up that way.
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City of Denton City Council Minutes
June 13, 1995
Page 22
Krueger said to Council Member Cott that it was not the hotel's
money that they were spending. It was the citizen's money. It was
not about a hotel being filled. He said it was about filling the
hotel.
Cott said he accepted the fact that it was about filling the hotel
but it was also about some company investing money, putting up a
building, buying sheets and pillow cases and saying to itself, "we
got stuck with this thing somehow and the City of Denton is playing
around with our money. We would like to get it back. Maybe what
we should do is get 1000 hotels in the state".
Council Member Miller said he heard what was said about the
incentives. Hopefully, they were contracting with responsible
organizations. What they were looking at was how much they had to
budget. In most cases that money was just a part of their budgets
and he did not feel that any of the organizations would say because
they got $200,000 that year, they would stop working because they
would not get any more money. Secondly, he said the broad purpose
was to bring tourists into the City but dared say that the 2
universities accounted for as much of the hotel business as any
other organization in terms of bringing it in. He could not fully
accept that it would automatically be increased by that amount. He
thought that whatever direction the Council went if they were going
to say reduce the rate and say to them if you work you get as much
or more, Council should sit down with each organization because
some assumptions were made before that did not go over very well.
He said he was willing to listen but did not buy the idea that it
had to be done for each of the organizations to be responsible and
to bring tourists into the City.
Mayor Castleberry pointed out that he previously served on the
committee and the Historical Foundation was reduced because they
thought they were sitting on too large a reserve. The Convention
Bureau was sitting on $200,000 reserve. He asked which agencies
would be funded from the Lalor fund, the ones currently receiving
it, or to open it to everyone. He asked if it were opened to
everyone did Council want to use the backup material without having
presentations.
Council Member Biles motioned to address the issue of continued
funding for the current five contractual entities and for staff to
bring to Council the written materials previously submitted and
that it be limited in scope to those entities. He also asked that
Staff come back to Council with the necessary backup for each
contractual entity to receive a percentage allocation of the total
$.07 tax revenue with a dollar budget established for each of the
contractual entities with a provision that if the dollar budget was
exceeded for the contractual year those monies were to be held over
for the next contractual year and must be allocated back to the
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City of Denton City Council Minutes
June 13, 1995
Page 23
same entities with the same tax rate allocation. The third part of
the motion was for a two-year contract effective October 1, 1995.
Council Member Krueger seconded the motion.
Council Member Young asked if the Black Chamber of Commerce and the
Hispanic Chamber of Commerce were qualified to receive some of the
funds.
Mayor Castleberry said if they had a convention bureau they would
probably qualify.
Bucek said under the statute Council was enabled to have a
Conventions and Visitors Bureau and Council had elected to have
the Chamber of Commerce perform that function. For the remaining
funds Council would pick out what they thought would encourage
tourism. There was a limit of $.01 for the arts and the rest would
be allocated among groups that provide a budget saying they would
do these things to encourage tourism. He said the Black Chamber of
Commerce could present an event that would bring tourism in and
Council could consider it. At the point Staff went through the
process there was no response from either organization of having an
event like that to encourage tourism. In the realm of possibility
he said it could exist.
Young said he wanted to see the Council add them to the list.
Bucek said there was no presentation received from them. When the
process was opened up there was no movement by them to show that
kind of event. The normal circumstance of a chamber of commerce
was to bring business in. He said they would have to have a
tourism type program in order for them to bid to do that. He was
not aware that they had such a program and asked Council Member
Young if he knew that they did.
Young said at a recent meeting at the Martin Luther King, Jr.
Center, Reverend Chew and Herman Wesley were discussing that and
putting together a package. He felt that the Council should do
what they could to help those chambers because they were interested
in drawing people into Denton. He said they had the same interest
as the other chamber and he thought Council should con~ider them.
Cott asked Fortune when the next report would be.
Fortune responded that staff was hoping to receive direction so
they could come back at Council's will.
Cott asked if it would be possible to leave those two pieces open
and if they got in fine. In terms of presenting a report they
would need to do it under the Council's format.
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City of Denton City Council Minutes
June 13, 1995 ~'" ......
Page 24
Mayor Castleberry asked Prouty for his comments.
Prouty said the points made on the two organizations by Council
Member Young would probably go under the first part of Biles'
motion that it should be limited to the written materials
previously extended. He said to include the Black and Hispanic
Chambers of Commerce that part of the motion would need to be
amended to either extend the period in which written materials
could be received or to open it up to allow those organizations to
make written presentations.
Council Member Brock mentioned to Council Member Young that the
Conventions and Visitors Bureau was housed within the Chamber of
Commerce but it was a separate entity. She said in some cities she
had discovered the Convention and Visitor's Bureau was housed by
the city. In other cities it was not apart of the city government
or chamber of commerce. It was a free standing entity. In fact in
Fort Worth it was a free standing entity and they receive all of he
hotel motel tax. She said the Chamber did not use any of those
funds for their own operations. It just so happened that they took
on the responsibility of organizing the Convention and Visitors
Bureau.
Cott said Council may not come back for two weeks and they needed
to understand the rules. He suggested that it be left open for
them and if they got in with a package done the proper way like all
the others they should be judged like everyone else.
Council Member Biles declined to amend the motion for the reason
that the backup was misleading. He said it was not the Chamber of
Commerce but the Convention and Visitor's Bureau. He said it was
a self sustaining entity that had it's own budget. The money was
not received nor spent by the Chamber of Commerce. He did not want
any one to misperceive his motivations on why he declined to accept
the amendment in that there was only one convention and visitors
bureau in Denton. He thought Miller made an excellent point in
that Council needed to expedite the process. They currently had
five qualified recipients and those that had previously made
presentations and were likewise qualified. He suggested to Council
Member Young that when the Black and Hispanic Chamber of Commerce
formally establish a convention and visitors bureau type function
that it would then be time to come to the table with that. He felt
Council needed to make progress with those to the point where they
could vote on it at the next meeting.
Young said they had plans just like the other Chamber of Commerce.
They had their own travelers bureau. He ~aid R~v~rend Chew was
talking about bringing the Black Baptist Church Union to Denton.
He asked that the Council give them a chance to come make a
presentation and be on the same field with everyone else.
City of Denton City Council Minutes
June 13, 1995
Page 25
Council Member Young motioned, Cott seconded to amend Biles motion.
On roll vote Cott, "aye", Brock "aye", Miller "aye", Castleberry
"aye", Biles "nay", Young "aye", Krueger "aye". Motion carried
with a 6-1 vote.
Council Member Miller asked for clarification on the main motion.
He thought they were to move ahead with the five there and receive
information from a number of other organizations and make
determinations during the current budget cycle.
Biles said he understood that they had to visit the contract issue
and have them in place by September 30 and have them into effect
October 1.
Miller asked what was the intent of the motion.
Biles responded that the motion's intent was to have everything in
place and signed by October 1.
Miller said the second part of the motion had to do with the tax
rate allocation. He did not hear any numbers for that.
Biles said they did not know how many entities there would be so
they could not yet establish numbers.
Miller wanted to know if it was conceivable that if there were 4 or
5 more entities the Convention and Visitor's Bureau could go from
2.85% to 2.5%.
Biles responded that conceivably given the logic Council Member
Krueger presented he did not anticipate that being the case. Each
of the present five contractual entities would still receive an
increase in funding over last year.
Miller asked if he was making a determination that they would
receive an increase.
Biles said the motion was trying to resolve how to arrive at a
legal answer to allowing the incentive to remain in place. He said
that was by having a percentage allocation subject to a dollar
budget but allowing the excess revenue to be reserved over back in
the same proportion to the same entity.
Miller said that was answered but wanted to go back to the
percentage.
Krueger said his specific recommendation was that each Lalor
recipient would maintain or better their current dollar receipt in
effect by lowering each tax allocated deal you could add one or two
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City of Denton City Council Minutes
June 13, 1995
Page 26
depending on how much you wanted them to receive but not to be any
more than what was equal to or more than what they received in the
previous year. He said every Saturday morning for the past 12
years he got up at 5:30 to deliver mail for the U.S. Government and
got paid for 9.5 hours. He said it took about 6 hours to do it but
he still got paid for 9 and that was called incentive.
Miller said he understood incentives and understood the way those
organizations worked. He said they were in there day in and day
out to provide a service to the community.
Mayor Castleberry said a motion was made and amended which would
include additional entities.
Biles said his motion was that it was premature to establish
amounts if they were going to allow other entities. Therefore,'the
way he answered Fortune's second question as to how much funding
each recipient receive, was to direct staff to achieve a
methodology of allocation that a percentage allocation of the total
tax be written into the contract based upon an anticipated 5%
increase over the previous year. He pointed again to page 2 of the
June 9 memo.
Cott called for the question.
Mayor Castleberry said the motion had been amended to include
additional agencies, the existing recipients would receive their
current level plus five percent.
Biles said his motion was that staff prepare the necessary backup
for Council to consider. After they decided the following week or
two weeks how many recipients they would come back to decide the
percentages.
Mayor Castleberry said at first Biles did not say that. He asked
if he was changing the motion.
Biles responded that he was not at all changing the motion. He
said he had not yet ever established a percentage or dollar amount.
Rather he was attempting to clarify the discussion of the last
several weeks.
Mayor Castleberry asked if it was wide open. He said he wanted
everyone to understand what they were voting for or against.
Biles said his motion did not establish a percentage allocation nor
did it establish a dollar budget. Rather it directs staff to
ascertain that it was a workable formula. It was a different type
of formula than had been used in the past and it was also different
than the formula that had most recently been included in Council
City of Denton City Council Minutes
June 13, 1995
Page 27
backup. He asked that the City Attorney and the Finance Department
come back to Council to verify that it was an appropriate
methodology in arriving at he contracts. He said the third point
was for a 2 year contract.
On roll vote Cott, "aye", Brock "aye", Miller "nay", Castleberry
"aye", Biles "aye", Young "aye", Krueger "aye". Motion carried
with a 6-1 vote.
3. Council held a discussion and gave staff direction regarding
appointment of Blue Ribbon CIP Committee.
City Manager Harrell said Council Member Brock asked that the item
be placed on the agenda for discussion. He said Staff was almost
completely out of approved projects for CIP funding. The last
major bond issue as a City for CIP Projects was approved in
December of 1986. At that time it was to be a 5 year Capital
Improvement Program. Because at that time the Council made a
pledge to the voters that it would be funded as a no tax increase
bond issue they actually stretched out the program until the
current fiscal year. He said so a 5 year program turned into an 8
or 9 year program. Harrell said Staff was now at the point of
exhausting virtually all authority for capital improvements except
a few minor street projects. He said in 1986 the Council, in
preparing to go to the voters with a CIP program, recognized that
to be successful they needed to have substantial citizen
involvement, a lot of people had to have an opportunity to have
input into the process and to finalize the package that the Council
would submit to the voters for consideration. At that time the
Council, in July of 1986, started the process of formulating a 50
member CIP Committee very diversified throughout the community that
started with the recommended 5 year CIP but then conducted
hearings, did investigations, defined and reshaped the 5 year
program and came back to the Council with a recommendation of the
package that would be submitted to the voters for consideration.
He said as they contemplated how to get to the point of having a
CIP the one thing he wanted to mention to the Council was if they
were going to go through a broad based citizen procedure they
needed to let themselves have at least about a 6 month period of
time from the time they began formulation of the committee until
the election. H~ said about all of that time would be needed to
get ready to go to the voters. He also mentioned that one of the
somewhat complicated factors was that the Visioning project that
should be ready for presentation near the end of September.
Harrell said they might want to have the timing such that the
committee could consider the Visioning projects along with the
other projects that were listed in the CIP.
Council Member Brock said they were really at the preliminary
decision stage and they needed to get an idea of whether they want
City of Denton City Council Minutes
June 13, 1995
Page 28
to take that approach. She said it was very successful in the last
bond issue which was after the voters had turned down a public
improvement bond issue. She said they had not had the input of
formulating them or selling them. As a result, she said the
streets were much worse than they currently were. She said the
city administration at that time made the decision that they were
going to get a bond issue through so they did not allocate a lot of
funds in the regular maintenance funds but that was a major issue
with citizens on the committee. Because it was such a broad based
committee that represented many different elements in the
community, they worked very hard at listening to the community
needs and what the priorities should be. Once the recommendations
were accepted by the City Council that committee took on the
responsibility of selling the program to the voters so it passed
handily. She said since that system worked very well, she
consistently wanted to get a lot of citizen involvement in that
kind of decision making when they were spending peoples money. She
recommended that a similar procedure be instituted and that Council
begin making some decisions about whether they would have a
committee, what size it should be, how many members each Council
Member would appoint and that sort of thing.
Cott asked if they had to be citizen's of Denton.
Mayor Castleberry responded yes.
Biles said before Council made any move on the decision he wanted
more information about not only that particular committee but also
the bond process. He asked for more details on the determination
of what goes in to the bond issue, who would make the decision,
what kinds of bonds, what was the correlation between the bond
issues and the CIP. He said Manager Harrell brought forth a
poignant concern and that was the timing with Vision. He did not
want to leave out the timing of the Fantus report. He was
concerned about the informational process on the CIP. With the
Fantus, CIP, Vision and that process he wanted to have a lot more
information before making any decisions.
Castleberry asked if Biles wanted Staff to bring back to the
Council numbers that were used before in a workshop session.
Biles said that would be excellent.
Council Member Young asked if the committee had already been
chosen.
Castleberry responded no.
Young wanted to know who would pick the people for the committee.
City of Denton City Council Minutes
June 13, 1995
Page 29
Castleberry responded that the Council would decide how many people
each Council Member could appoint. He asked if it was satisfactory
with everyone that the item be placed on a workshop agenda with
appropriate back up material.
There was a consensus.
4. Council received a report and gave staff direction concerning
noise control measures for contractors.
Council Member Krueger said he asked that the item be placed on the
agenda because it had been brought to his attention by several
contractors. He read a recommendation by Council Member Biles that
was very appropriate. It was for an administrative stamp of
approval if certain criteria were met. He felt the noise ordinance
currently in place was an undue burden on contractors during the
months of June, July, and August when it was hot and when it was
unbearable at the hours of 12 noon and 1:00 p.m. Krueger said when
a man with a business starts pouring a slab at 7:00 a.m. he may not
be through until 2:00 or 3:00 in the afternoon when it was
unbearable. He said if he could get started at 6:00 a.m. the
heavy work would be done by the heat hours and the finishing work
was underway. He felt there needed to be some flexibility rather
than having to go through the whole process of the contractor
having to know weeks in advance and come to the Council for a
variance. He thought there should be something in place where the
City Manager or city staff could give a quick administrative
approval to speed up the process and help the businesses that earn
and spend money in Denton.
Mayor Castleberry asked Krueger if he wanted to tie in into
daylight savings time.
Krueger said daylight savings time was a little long. He thought
it applied just to the summer months and that was all the
contractors were asking for.
Biles asked if staff would come back with an analysis of the
issues. He said there were several sub issues. First, whether it
would go from 7:00 a.m. to 6:00 a.m or whether it would go from
8:00 p.m. or 8~30 D.m. to later in the evening. Was that something
the City Manager could address in terms of an administrative
process or was something the City Manager and staff would feel more
appropriate for the variance to be brought to Council. Secondly,
he wanted to know if there was a way to streamline the process and
as the Mayor said was daylight savings time a valid criteria. He
~aid for ~ampl~, h~ would not think it would be appropriate that
a variance be granted under most circumstances for a loud
construction at 6:00 a.m. on Scripture. However, there were wide
expansions along University Drive in District 3 where no one would
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City of Denton City Council Minutes
June 13, 1995
Page 30
hear the noise. Further up north along the highway by Texas
Instruments there was half mile to a mile to the nearest resident
so there was no problem with a variance on the time, early morning
or late evening. He said he was looking at a more efficient use of
the City's time as well as the developer's time. He said it was
much easier to get good, quality work done in the morning because
by mid afternoon it was just too hot to work. He asked Harrell in
what ways could they ask Staff to come back to give Council ideas
on pursuing the issue.
Harrell responded that the Building Inspection Staff and others
involved could get together to brain storm and see if there might
be some suggestions they could frame to meet the flexibility
Krueger mentioned while being conscious of the neighborhood
integrity. He said staff would also do a survey of surrounding
communities that may have addressed the problem also to see how
they might have approached it. He felt that might also prompt some
good ideas. Harrell said if Council wanted Staff to do further
research there were ways to do that and if they wanted to pursue a
specific ordinance they would have more information to do that.
Biles said in that process, objective criteria, such as the Mayor's
suggestion of daylight savings time, relation to zoning, and
minimum distance from an established residence would be helpful.
Young said he used to be in the concrete business. He said you
really have to start early in the winter too because after a
certain temperature the concrete ruins. He said they did not need
to just focus on the summer months when it was hot and people were
trying to keep from getting heat strokes. Young said there were a
lot of big projects that go on in the winter. He said it also took
so many hours to lay it out and then to finish it.
There was consensus among the Council to send the issue back to
staff.
5. Council received a report and gave staff direction concerning
alcohol prohibition and curfew for Fred Moore Park.
City Manager Harrell introduced the item and directed comments
especially to the new Council Members regarding the Council's
adopted working procedures so they would understand how staff dealt
with particular issues. He said agenda items 3, 4, and 5 were
items that an individual Council Member specifically asked be
placed on a future agenda. According to the Council's adopted work
policy, any City Council Member had a right to place any item on a
Council agenda. However, staff had also been directed that they
were to do very minimal work on a specific request that had been
forwarded by a particular Council person until that item could be
placed on a work session and then Council as a whole would give
City of Denton City Council Minutes
June 13, 1995
Page 31
Staff direction as to what additional work, research, information
they wanted gathered to make a final decision. He said that was to
make sure staff did not spend a lot of research time working on an
issue the majority of the Council was not interested in pursuing.
He said the three items 3, 4, and 5 all fell under that category
where Staff had done fairly minimal research just to introduce the
subject so the Council could have an opportunity to discuss it as
a group and give direction on what to do further. Harrell said
item 5 was asked for by Council Member Young.
Council Member Young said when he was running for Council it was
expressed to him by a lot of people that if you could drink in one
park why could they not drink in their park. He said he was asked
to do something about that if he won. Young said he knew alcohol
was a controversial issue but by being controversial it would draw
a lot of interest. He campaigned for more citizen participation
and Council Member Cott told him that was the most citizen
participation he had seen since he had been up there. Young said
that part was working. Having been elected, no matter how he felt
about the issue, to be right an honorable towards to the people
that elected him he had to bring the issue up. He said when the
issue came up there was a focus on Fred Moore Park and District 1.
Out of that came a realization that Fred Moore Park needed a new
rest room, would get more picnic tables, a new pavilion, more trash
barrels, more playground equipment, electricity on the northeast
corner, and portable rest rooms for June 19. He said there was
$300,000 set for parks and Fred Moore Park would get a lot of that.
Council Members also looked at Pecan Creek, Willow Creek, and
extension of Newton Street. Young said Council Members got out and
walked it that was something that did not usually happen in Denton
but they drew the interest. Young said it looked like Carl Young
was the guy to bring alcohol to Fred Moore Park it was not the
truth. Council Member Young motioned to keep the 10:00 curfew, to
ban alcohol at all Parks, also on special events like June 19th for
there to be a variance so groups could come before Council for a
variance so they could drink alcohol. Young added that you could
not bring bottles, it would have to be plastic or cans. He wanted
everyone to understand that Carl Young would not be scared to get
on controversial issues because he would take them head on. He
said there had been a real good look at Fred Moore Park. The eyes
and ears had been on Fred Moore Park and its problems. He said as
far as the COPS Program, it was a great program. It got rid of the
drug dealers but what they found out from the people that said they
were being harassed was that the design of the COPS program was
designed for having black officers in the black area and hispanic
officers in the hispanic area. When you have just white officers
enforcing, resentment builds. He said then the people start
disrespecting the police and the police start disrespecting the
police. He said it was all human nature. Young said you then have
a person saying the policeman was picking on him because he was
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City of Denton City Council Minutes
June 13, 1995
Page 32
black and the policeman saying he's trying to protect him and he
disrespected him. At that point you had people talking about
harassment. Whether it was harassment or not, Young said people
said that to him so as a leader he had to address it for everyone.
He said he wanted everyone to understand that he was not against
the COPS program but Council needed to take a look at all of the
concerns of other people in District 1.
Mayor Castleberry asked for clarification on the motion. He said
the motion was that the curfew be the same for all parks in the
City.
Young said it was a thing of equality. He said now there was no
alcohol in any park.
Biles seconded the motion.
Miller mentioned a couple of issues. First, he said there were a
number of parks where alcoholic consumption was not allowed and 13
of them were enumerated, the neighborhood parks. He said the parks
where alcoholic beverages were allowed were the Civic Center Park,
Mack Park, and North Lakes Park. He understood there was currently
discussion in Parks and Recreation that the Parks Department and
Police Department look at alcohol consumption in 2 of those parks
because there were problems when there were softball games. He
said there was a uniformed policy with the neighborhood parks and
then the city wide parks. He said they also needed to get a
recommendation for Owsley and the new South Lakes Park. Secondly,
he said what ever they did, Council should refer the issue to the
Parks Department and let the Parks Board study it. Thirdly, he was
concerned that if Council said they would allow on special
occasions alcoholic beverages in the neighborhood parks they would
have taken a back door approach to opening all of the parks for
alcoholic consumption. Miller said currently with the noise
ordinance they allow exceptions. He could not remember one
occasion where the request was denied. He said once they allowed
the first exception they had opened the door. He felt they should
keep the policy for the neighborhood parks and not open it up at
all. He was willing to send it back to the Parks and Recreation
Department look at the other issue. There may be times when any
group might like to go to the Civic Center Park and under proper
supervision have alcohol in that environment. He did not think
they should deny the whole city the opportunity to do that under
controlled situations. But under no circumstances in neighborhood
parks should they allow alcoholic consumption.
Council Me,Der Brock thanked all the people who turnod up and sat
through the other items. She hoped they learned a little about the
way the City Government works. She also expressed appreciation for
all those people who attended the NICE meeting. She said she would
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City of Denton City Council Minutes
June 13, 1995
Page 33
not be able to vote for it because she felt it was a back door
approach to getting alcohol in the neighborhood parks. She said if
they did have that sort of getting special permission she thought
if they wiped out general alcohol consumption in all parks then
they could possibly have special permission to use it in those
parks where it was already authorized. She could see various
groups coming forward with requests and the Council would be
charged with discrimination and even racism if they said the event
was not legitimate or best for the community. She felt the
approach would open Council up to all sorts of possible abuses.
Brock was concerned to preserve the improvements that had been made
in the park and the neighborhood. Brock said having a system where
people could apply to have alcohol in the neighborhood parks was a
step in the wrong direction.
Council Member Cott said the way they were was no different from
any other way they could be. He motioned to amend the original
motion and that it be turned over to the Parks Department for their
recommendation to the Council.
Biles seconded the amendment to the motion to send Council Member
Young's recommendation to the Parks and Recreation Board.
Young agreed with the motion to send his recommendation to the
Parks Board. He did not see where anyone would be charged with
racism for granting the variance. He said it should be handled
just like the Fair and the Fry Street Fair. After the first year
Council could evaluate to see if there were any violations. He
said you could monitor whatever organization used the park. One of
the things Council could do when there was alcohol in the park was
to have Police Officers there. He said Council did discriminate
against people who drank beer because they were being cut
completely out. By getting permission from the Council, they would
have the change to review the groups. He said "x" number of Police
Officers could be required. That way everyone would be protected
and Council would not discriminate against the beer drinkers.
Mayor Castleberry asked Young if he was accepting the amendment.
Young responded yes.
Prouty clarified the motion. He said Young wanted alcohol banned
at all Parks and a variance to allow the service of alcohol for
special events.
Young said you would have to get Council permission then it would
be up to the Council's discretion to have a certain number of
police officers.
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City of Denton City Council Minutes ·
June 13, 1995
Page 34
Biles said it would be much more efficiently handled if they sent
just the recommendation to the Parks Board that the 10:00 curfew be
maintained as it presently stands and ban alcohol in all parks but
the variance procedure be there in place for all parks. He said
the Parks Board could come back with a different recommendation but
Council had given them some framework to work within.
Brock wanted to be sure that it was clear that the motion included
a recommendation that would open all neighborhood parks to alcohol.
She said it would require a variance and the City Council would
have to vote on it but it would be opening up all neighborhood
parks to consumption of alcohol.
Young said only for special events.
Mayor Castleberry commented that the Parks Board would be asked to
consider the recommendation but they might come back with a
different recommendation to the Council.
Miller said that was the most unusual request he could remember
sending to a board or commission. He said they had already given
them the answer but wanted them to come back and tell Council
that's not a good answer instead of saying "here is a situation, we
want you to study it". He thought the purpose of the motion was to
open up the parks for alcoholic beverages. He was still very much
opposed to that. He said he had heard from citizens all over the
City the past 5 days, not just Southeast Denton. He did not think
that was what they wanted. He said he could not vote for it in the
form it was in.
Young said as it was currently, you could already drink in parks.
He said the motion was saying you could not drink in any park
without City Council authorization. He said that was controlling
who drinks and when they drink. It would give the Council control
over alcohol consumption. Young said the City Council would not
just let unresponsible people go in. He said the police would be
there monitoring the whole situation.
Miller said he appreciated Young having his opinion and he was also
entitled to his opinion. He thought that it would open up alcohol
to all parks over a period of time. Miller said he could conceive
of all kinds of events that Council would be hard pressed to turn
down.
Krueger said he had witnessed the Council turn down noise
ordinances, variances and numerous things in the past. He agreed
with Council Member Young that it was an avenue for organizations
such as Juneteenth, the Arts Fest, Jazz Fest, Storytellers
Association or a family reunion to go to a park. He said there was
alcohol being drank in parks now. He said he had a conversation
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City of Denton City Council Minutes
June 13, 1995
Page 35
with Council Member Young about that and he said if he wanted to go
down to Avondale Park and have a beer he could pour it in a cup and
drink it. He said Young responded that if he did that in Fred
Moore Park there would be 3 Police Officers sniffing the cup.
Krueger said what was good for the goose was good for the gander
and the Council needed to make equality felt in Denton. If they
were going to do that, alcohol needed to be banned in every park
and make an allowance. He did not particularly feel Council needed
to send it back to Parks and Recreation Board. He said they were
elected to make those decisions and they should make it. He did
not need anyone telling him. He said he would listen to advise and
sometimes even take it.
Council Member Brock asked if there were currently 13 parks where
consumption of alcohol was illegal. It may be that it occurs but
not with the sanction of the City Council. She said with the
motion it would be legal under certain circumstances to consume
alcohol in all parks. She said that sounded like opening it up.
Biles responded that her comment was a mischaracterization of the
motion. He said the motion was to send the issue as a frame work
for consideration to the Parks and Recreation Board. He said they
could come back with whatever recommendation. They could say no
variances anywhere at anytime or recommend that they have alcohol
24 hours a day in every park created in the future. All the motion
did was create an opportunity for the Board to consider the motion
as a frame work. Biles felt that a number of council Members were
missing the point.
Council Member Young said he wanted Council to go ahead and make
the vote to send the issue to Parks and Recreation Department and
let them make the final decision. He said they were the ones with
expertise. They would probably come back and say no alcohol in any
park. Young commented that if that was what they recommended that
was what he would accept.
Mayor Castleberry mentioned that there had been some complaints
about alcohol being used in North Lakes Park, particularly on the
lake on Bonnie Brae.
Cott said it would seem to him they should havo 2 pr~sentations, a
zero drinking presentation which may be very costly and secondly,
let them recommend those occasions when each park might open for
alcohol and what it costs for police. Cott agreed with Miller and
Brock that it opened up the 13 parks that were not currently opened
to alcohol.
Young said the Parks and Recreation Board could come back with the
recommendation that those variances go only for the community
parks.
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City of Denton City Counci! Minutes
June 13, 1995
Page 36
Biles said that he received a number of telephone calls and letters
from the people in District 3. They were concerned about McKenna
Park which was a neighborhood park. They did not want any alcohol
in the park at all. North Lakes allowed alcohol in most areas but
there were a number of people concerned about alcohol in that park.
He expressed concern with certain annual events at the parks. He
said for instance the rugby club had annual events at North Lakes
Park and for some reason rugby players really liked beer. If they
came before Council with due consideration, if it was a well
organized event, a responsible organization then they could ask for
consideration to consume alcohol at the rugby match at North Lakes
Park. He said what if the City was growing and adult softball
leagues were so numerous that they had to play games at every field
including the 3 at Mack Park, 6 or 8 at North Lakes Park and
including the one at Fred Moore Park. It would be a very specific
event only between narrow hours sponsored by a responsible
organization. He said it was not opening up a haphazard approach
to alcohol. The motion was to send the issue as only a frame work
to Parks and Recreation. He said everyone in the audience as well
as all of his constituents in District 3 could go to the Parks and
Recreation Board and come to Council when they received the Parks
and Recreation recommendation.
Brock said she was about to remind Biles what the motion was about
when he was discussing the merits of it. She said the motion was
really about whether they were opening the door for opening the
door.
Miller said he agreed with Brock that it really was giving
instructions to the Parks Board to come back with that policy and
they were really opening the door.
On roll vote Cott,
"aye", Biles "aye",
with a 5-2 vote.
"aye", Brock "nay", Miller "nay", Castleberry
Young "aye", Krueger "aye". Motion carried
6. Council considered nominations to the City's boards and
commissions.
City Manager Harrell said each of the Council Members had a booklet
provided by the City Secretary listing out the various boards and
the positions for which vacancies were occurring or terms had
expired along with the name of the individual Council Member that
had the opportunity to make a nomination for that seat. He called
Council's attention to that fact that the rules of procedure call
for a Council person to make a nomination at one meeting and it
would b~ voted on by th~ ~ntir~ Council at ~ubs~qu~nt m~tings.
Mayor Castleberry mentioned even though a position was assigned to
a Council person by a drawing three or four years ago, another
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City of Denton City Council Minutes
June 13, 1995
Page 37
Council Member could make a nomination for that position also at
the next meeting.
Council Member Brock said she did not understand that was the
procedure they adopted.
Mayor Castleberry asked if he was incorrect on the issue.
Miller said yes. That was one where they reserved the spots as an
exception to having other nominations.
Krueger asked if they could proceed with their current nominations
or if they needed to wait until they had them all.
Mayor Castleberry said they did not have to have them all. If they
did not have any, that was fine or if they had a few that was fine.
He said the nomination would be effective July 1 so the sooner they
got to it the better.
Biles asked when would they have the final vote.
Miller commented that they would vote the next week on the
nominations made at this meeting. Then at the next meeting there
would be nominations to be voted on at the following meeting.
Brock said there was actually a problem sometimes filling technical
positions. For example, she had a place on the Electrical Code
Board that required a master electrician and she would be glad to
have some suggestions.
Mayor Castleberry said there was an unwritten policy, because there
were term limitations for Council Members they had followed the
policy that someone that reaches 6 years on a board or commission
would not be reappointed but were eligible for another board. He
said that was 2 four year terms for the PUB.
Miller commented that it had actually been put in the rules and
regulations.
Brock said she recalled it saying three terms and that included the
PUB which would mean 12 years because it took so long for them to
get up to speed.
Miller located the reference from the Council's rules of procedure,
8.3(d).
Th~ following nominations were made:
Airport Advisory Board: Young nominated Hal Jackson, Krueger
nominated Rick Woolfolk, and Brock nominated Mike Stephens.
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City of Denton City Council Minutes
June 13, 1995
Page 38
Animal Shelter Advisory Board:
Cott nominated Veronica Rolen.
Board of Adjustment:
nominated Ed Terry.
Brock nominated Rachel Mays, and Young
Building Code Board: Young nominated Willie Hudspeth and
Krueger nominated Nicholas Eassa.
Cable TV Advisory Board: Young nominated Dessie Johnson.
Community Development Advisory Committee: Young nominated
Cowendel Johnson, Cott nominated James McDade, and Brock nominated
Roberta Donsbach.
Data Processing Advisory Board: Young
Johnson Sr.
nominated
McTawahla
Downtown Advisory Board: Brock nominated Don Davis, Mayor
Castleberry nominated Teri Rheault, and Krueger nominated Don Hill.
Electrical Code Board:
Castleberry nominated
Schertz.
Krueger nominated Stuart Cawthon, Mayor
Fred Reed, and Miller nominated Terry
Historic Landmark Commission: Krueger nominated Bryan Briscoe, Cott
nominated Bullitt Lowry, Miller nominated Suzanne Byron, Brock
nominated Mark Merki, Young nominated Charlie Heggins, and Biles
nominated Alan Smart.
Human Services Committee: Cott nominated Wesley Stewart, Miller
nominated Catherine Bell, Young nominated Susan Cross, Miller
nominated Carol Riddlesperger, and Brock nominated M. Valdez.
Keep Denton Beautiful Board: Cott nominated Doug Ebersole, Miller
nominated Jean Ross, Young nominated Reverend L. E. Lasson, and
Krueger nominated Martha Len Nelson.
Library Board: Miller nominated Linnie McAdams, Brock nominated
Jean Greenlaw, and Young nominated Dorothy Minter.
Parks and Recreation Board: Miller nominated Doug Chadwick, Brock
nominated Burkley Harkless, and Young nominated John Catlin Jr.
Planning and Zoning Commission: Cott nominated Rudy Moreno,
Mayor Castleberry nominated Barbara Russell, Young nominated Bob
Powell, and Krueger nominated Guy Jones.
Plumbing and Mechanical Code Board: Biles nominated Frank
Cunningham, Cott nominated Karl Martino, and Krueger nominated Dave
Reynolds.
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City of Denton City Council Minutes
June 13, 1995
Page 39
Public Utilities Board: Biles nominated Dick Norton, and Cott
nominated Bob Coplen.
Sign Board of Appeals: Cott nominated John Weber.
Traffic Safety Commission: Cott nominated Harry Phillips, Miller
nominated Brenda Minnis, and Mayor Castleberry nominated J. Hobdy.
Civil Service Commission:
Bates.
Denton Housing Authority:
Whitson and Vicki Hill.
TMPA Board of Directors:
City Manager Harrell nominated Jana
Mayor Castleberry appointed Warren
The Council nominated Bill Geese.
Miller asked if further nominations for the Sesquicentennial could
be placed on the next agenda. He said the new Council Members had
not had an opportunity to nominate people for the Committee.
Mayor Castleberry commented that they may have to rent the Civic
Center for the meeting.
7. Council discussed and considered invitation to tour the Denton
County jail.
City Manager said the Council had an invitation from the Sheriff
inviting Council to take a tour.
Council Members Young, Miller, and Brock said they would like to
attend.
Mayor Castleberry asked Harrell to come up with a couple of dates
for the next meeting.
Council convened into executive session.
The meeting was adjourned.
Veronica S. Rolen
Deputy City Secretary
City of Denton
City of Denton /